Πρεζέμπορας Vs καπνέμπορας- η Μάχη της Παβίας ΙΙ

[Prepon]

Ο Μαρινάκης δεν εχει καμιά σχέση με τη σωφροσύνη , την εγκράτεια,την ψηλή πολιτική.

Είναι ενστικτώδης, λαίμαργος, ακόρεστος, εξ ορισμού ως Ολυμπιακός.

Θεωρώ πως του έδωσε η κυβέρνηση την άδεια να παίξει μπάλα με την επιτροπή προκειμένου να τιμωρηθεί ο ΠΑΟΚ τόσο όσο να πάρει ο ΟΣΦΠ το πρωτάθλημα, αλλά εκείνος ακριβώς επειδή είναι Φαταουλ εκμεταλλεύτηκε την κατάσταση για να ξεκανει εντελώς τον Ιβαν. Βλέποντας ο Κούλης πως είπαν στη γριά να χέσει και εκείνη ξεκωλοθηκε, έτρεξε να μαζέψει τα ασυμμαζευτα με τον αδέξιο τρόπο που είδαμε.

Συμπερασματικά, δεν θεωρώ τον Μαρινάκη οξυδερκή, σώφρονα, εγκρατή. Πιστεύω πως δεν είναι σύμφωνος με την κατάληξη της υπόθεσης.

[Nero]

Ο Μαρινάκης δεν εχει καμιά σχέση με τη σωφροσύνη , την εγκράτεια,την ψηλή πολιτική.

Είναι ενστικτώδης, λαίμαργος, ακόρεστος, εξ ορισμού ως Ολυμπιακός.

Θεωρώ πως του έδωσε η κυβέρνηση την άδεια να παίξει μπάλα με την επιτροπή προκειμένου να τιμωρηθεί ο ΠΑΟΚ τόσο όσο να πάρει ο ΟΣΦΠ το πρωτάθλημα, αλλά εκείνος ακριβώς επειδή είναι Φαταουλ εκμεταλλεύτηκε την κατάσταση για να ξεκανει εντελώς τον Ιβαν. Βλέποντας ο Κούλης πως είπαν στη γριά να χέσει και εκείνη ξεκωλοθηκε, έτρεξε να μαζέψει τα ασυμμαζευτα με τον αδέξιο τρόπο που είδαμε.

Συμπερασματικά, δεν θεωρώ τον Μαρινάκη οξυδερκή, σώφρονα, εγκρατή. Πιστεύω πως δεν είναι σύμφωνος με την κατάληξη της υπόθεσης.

Μην μπερδεύεσαι. Γαύρους διοικεί, δεν σημαίνει ότι είναι γαύρος. Ο Κούιντος έλεγε ότι μιλάει λατινικά όταν συζητάει με τον θεό, ισπανικά στις γκόμενες και διατάζει το άλογό του στα γερμανικά, ήτοι, οι ηγεμόνες δεν είναι ανάγκη να ταυτίζονται με τους υποτακτικούς

[perseus]

Αφου δεν επεμβαινει η φιμπα καλα κανουν

[sman5]

είχε αν ήθελε το ελεύθερο να κάνει παρέλαση μέχρι το Παρίσι, ωστόσο γι'αυτό, πήρε τη συνθήκη που έψαχνε, άφησε τον ξάδερφο ελεύθερο και δεν διεκδίκησε τίποτα παραπάνω. Γιατί; Ένας θεός ξέρει

Με παρόμοιο τρόπο έδρασε και σε αλλες περιπτώσεις. Πχ το 1532 στην εκστρατεία του εναντίον του Σουλεϊμαν στη Βιέννη με 80.000 άντρες ενω είχε την ευκαιρία να τον αναγκάσει σε μάχη ή ακόμη και να τον παγιδεύσει κατά την υποχώρηση του δεν έκανε απολύτως τίποτα.

1535:

At this point Charles should have ordered his army to leave at once in pursuit and force Kheir-ed-Din into a pitched battle. Had he done so, he might have destroyed the corsair forever, and the emperor’s 600 ships should have no problem in preventing him from escaping by sea. But the soldiers - and probably the sailors too - were far too busy raping and plundering, as the rules of war allowed the to do for three days and nights.

https://books.google.gr/books?id=zCWkGr ... ve&f=false

[Nero]

Έψαξα αλλά δε βρήκα αν έχει γράψει κάτι ο δάσκαλος στο διάστημα πριν την Παβία, ωστόσο έχει δυο πολύ ενδιαφέρουσες επιστολές αμέσως μετά, στις 3 και στις 26 Γενάρη 1526 όπου αναλύει το ενδεχόμενο συνθήκης για την απελευθέρωση του Φρανσουά. Το πιο σημαντικό, είναι ότι ως συνήθως έβλεπε τα πράγματα απο τη σκοπιά του κοινού πχορουμίτη. Ήτανε το μυρμήγκι ανάμεσα σε 2 ιμπεριαλιστικούς ελέφαντες που παλεύουν και οποιαδήποτε και να ήταν η έκβαση, το ψώλιασμα ήταν σίγουρο, δεν το γλίτωναν

I have always been of the opinion that if the Emperor intends to become master of affairs, he will never release the King,1 because by keeping him he keeps all his opponents weak, so that for this reason they are giving him and will give him as much time as he wishes to organize. Thus he keeps now France and now the Pope in hope of truce, and does not break off the negotiations and does not finish them; and when he sees that the Italians are about to unite with France, he limits his discussions with France, so that France does not decide. Hence he gains, as with these tricks we see he already has gained Milan, and was on the point of gaining Ferrara; he would have succeeded if he had gone there; and if that had happened, it would have been the finish of Italy.

And if I may speak of these Spanish brothers of ours, they have erred this time, for when the Duke passed through Lombardy to go there, they should have held him and made him go to Spain by sea, and not have trusted him to go there by himself, because they should have known that many chances could come up (as there have), through which he would not go there. We heard four days ago of closer relations between Italy and France, and it is credible, because, Pescara oeing dead, Antonio de Leyva being sick, the Duke having returned to Ferrara, the castles of Milan and Cremona still being held, the Venetians not put under obligation, and eve.rybody clear about the ambition of the Emperor, we suppose that everybody will try to gain security, and that the chance is very good. But thereupon news comes that the Emperor and France have made an agreement, and that France yields Burgundy and takes as wife the sister of the Emperor; and he abandons four hundred thousand ducats she has of dower, and dowers her with as much; and he gives as hostages either his two younger sons or the Dauphin; and he cedes to him all the territories of Naples, of Milan, etc. Many believe in such an agreement and many do not, for the reasons given above; but I believe he has made it to hinder those closer relations mentioned above, and later he will find fault with it and break it. Now we shall wait to see what will happen.

2

But thereupon news comes that the Emperor and France have made an agreement, and that France yields Burgundy and takes as wife the sister of the Emperor; and he abandons four hundred thousand ducats she has of dower, and dowers her with as much; and he gives as hostages either his two younger sons or the Dauphin; and he cedes to him all the territories of Naples, of Milan, etc. Many believe in such an agreement and many do not, for the reasons given above; but I believe he has made it to hinder those closer relations mentioned above, and later he will find fault with it and break it. Now we shall wait to see what will happen.

If you should ask me which of these three things I believe, I cannot get away from the settled opinion I have always held, that the King is not going to be free, because everybody knows that if the King should do what he can do, he would cut off from the Emperor all the ways by which the latter can rise to the level he has planned for himself. I do not see any cause or reason strong enough to move him to let the King go. Hence, in my view, it must be that he will let him go either because his council has been bribed (something in which the French are masters), or because he sees that closer relations are certain between the Italians and the kingdom, and it does not appear to him that he has time or means for breaking them up without the release of the King. He must believe, too, that the King, if released, will have to keep the terms, and the King in this matter must have been a large promiser, and shown in every way the causes of the hatred be has for the Italians, and other reasons he could bring forward to assure the Emperor of observance.

Nevertheless, all the reasons that can be brought forward do not guard the Emperor from being stupid, if the King intends to be wise; but I do not believe he intends to be wise. The first reason is that up to now I have seen that whatever bad decisions the Emperor makes do not injure him, and all the good ones the King makes do not ben.efit him. It will be, as I have said, a bad plan for the Emperor to release the King; it will be a good one for the King to promise everything in order to be free. Nevertheless, because the King will keep it, the plan of the King will tum out bad and that of the Emperor good. The reasons that will make him observe it I have written to Filippo; they are these: he will have to leave his sons in prison; if he does not keep it, be will need to burden his kingdom, which is already burdened; he will need to burden the barons by sending them into Italy; he will have to tum at once to labors that, from past examples, are enough to terrify him; and moreover he will be doing these things to aid the Church and the Venetians, who have helped to ruin him. And I wrote to you, and I write again, that great is the anger the King must feel against the Spaniards, but that cannot be much less than that which he must feel against the Italians.

I know well it can be said, and it would be true, that if through this hatred he lets Italy be ruined, he might then lose his kingdom. But the matter stands that he intends it thus, because, as soon as he is free, be will be in the midst of two difficulties, one, that of having Burgundy taken from him and losing Italy and being in the Emperor's power; ~d the second, in order to escape the first, to become almost a parricide and a breaker of faith. He would get into the above-mentioned difficulties in order to aid men who are disloyal and unstable, who for the slightest cause, after he had won, would make him lose again. So I lean to the opinion either that the King will not be free, or that, if be is free, he will keep his word; because dread of losing hls kingdom, if Italy is lost (since he has, as you say, a French brain), is not going to move him in the way in which it might move some other man. The other opinion, that he will not believe Italy will go up in smoke, and perhaps will believe he can aid her, since she will have purged some of her sins, and he would have got hls sons back and gained new strength. And if between them there were treaties for the division of spoil, so much the more the King would observe th.e treaties, but so much more the Emperor would be a crazy man to put back into Italy one whom he had got out of her; then he can chase out the Emperor himself.

I am telling you what I believe may be, but I do not at all say that for the King it would be the wiser decision, because he should imperil anew himself, his sons, and his kingdom in order to humble so hateful, feared, and dangerous a power. And the remedies for it seem to me these: to see that the King, as soon as he gets out, has near him one who, with his authority and his arguments and those of him who sends him, will make him forget past things and think of new ones, show him the unanimity of Italy, show him his plan as successful, if he decides to be that free king that he ought to wish to be. I believe that arguments and requests can have effect, but I believe that there would be much more effect in deeds. I judge, in whatever way affairs go on, that there will be war, and soon, in Italy; therefore the Italians must see to it that they have France with them, and if they cannot have her, must consider how they are going to manage. I believe that in this situation we can make one of two decisions, either to be subject to the will of whoever comes, and to meet him with money and buy ourselves out; or truly to arm ourselves and with arms help ourselves as well as we can......

[Kauldron]

Πρεζέμπορας Vs καπνέμπορας

Απο καθαρά ιατρικής άποψης, ο καπνός λογικά βλάπτει λιγότερο απ' την πρέζα.

[Nero]

Πρεζέμπορας Vs καπνέμπορας

Απο καθαρά ιατρικής άποψης, ο καπνός λογικά βλάπτει λιγότερο απ' την πρέζα.

δεν είχα αμφιβολία

[Kauldron]

Πρεζέμπορας Vs καπνέμπορας

Απο καθαρά ιατρικής άποψης, ο καπνός λογικά βλάπτει λιγότερο απ' την πρέζα.

δεν είχα αμφιβολία

Σωστή είναι η σκέψη σου οτι είναι και οι δυο μαφιόζοι και βρωμεροί.
Από 'κει και πέρα, ας μην το πάρει ο ΠΑΟ(Ρ)Κ αλλά ας μην το πάρει και ο Γαύρος. Ας το πάρει η τρίτη ομάδα πχ.